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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I just received some turn signals I ordered from AliExpress. I had a hard time finding the style that I liked combined with LEDs instead of incandescent and three wires (for dual running and signal lights). I had planned to keep the fronts as dual-function lights and convert the rear to the same by splicing off the license plate illumination circuit.

What I have found in the front is that from the factory, Yamaha provides a common 12V power and the ground is switched on and off to illuminate the light. The new signals are wired such that they have a common ground and the 12V is switched for either the running or the turn signal illumination...

If this was incandescent, it would be fine, since current can flow in either direction across a filament and work properly. LEDs are a different beast, the current has to flow one way and will not work if the polarity is reversed. I don't see any way to make this work without a complicated relay setup - has anyone else experienced this and figured out a way to make this work?

The only solution I see would be to desolder each of the ~15 LEDs on each PCB on each indicator and reverse the polarity, then use the common ground wire as 12V and the individual power leads as switched ground. As these are all surface-mount components, I'm not sure my soldering skills are up to the task.

Any ideas??? I'd think this would be a common theme on aftermarket 3-wire indicators. Not sure if US and European made bikes use a common ground whereas Japanese bikes always use a common 12V...

Thanks,
Aaron
 

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Discussion Starter #3
according to my wiring manual the front should be common ground with split power
Interesting that you say that, I tested mine with a meter. Looking at the front right signal's wiring harness, with the bike on, wire #1 has 12V at all times. Wire #2 is connected to ground at all times. The third wire is gets an intermittent connection to ground when the right turn signal is on. So that would indicate that the running light is connected to wires 1 and 2, and the turn signal is connected to 1 and 3.

Now you have me second guessing myself. I will verify this tonight... But I think I found a solution anyway, if this is the case... micro relays. I was concerned about using a regular Bosch SPDT relay because of their size and needing it to fit in the headlight bucket. These micro relays I found are much smaller and will handle 5A.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I rechecked last night with my meter. I was correct in that there is a 12v common and the running and turn signals are grounded separately. I noticed that the turn signal negative goes to ground when the turn signals are off, and when the signal is on, it disconnects intermittently with the flasher. I believe it's just a slight voltage leak through the flasher relay, it's not enough to light up an incandescent bulb, but does light up LEDs since they require so little current.

I temporarily wired it up with a full-size SPDT relay to test my theory and it worked perfectly. Because of the turn signal ground issue I mention above, I actually swapped the 87 and 87a outputs from the relay so the NC output is the turn signal, as the relay clicks on with the ignition. In this sense, the relay is working in 'reverse' but still suits my needs. I expect the micro relays to fit in the headlight bucket without issue, and they are sealed so no worries about corrosion in side the relay. All connections will be soldered with heat-shrink tubing.


I also worked on converting the rears to a dual running/turn setup. I was successful, and the new lights look great! But I had to do some creative wiring here... (The problems I am solving are specific to this LED board configuration - common ground with high/low 12v inputs, both wired to the same circuit except the running light input has some resistors wired in series to drop the voltage, thus giving a lower light output. This necessitates the use of a diode on the turn signal input so that when power is applied to the running light input, current doesn't just flow in reverse through the turn signal input. I used the factory turn signal 12v (with a Schottky diode in series) and ground, and teed off the license plate light 12v for my running light inputs. The running lights come on with the ignition, and the LEDs flash brighter when the turn signal is on.

Sorry for the novel, but I wanted to explain why this was more complicated than expected! I will update this post after my micro relays show up, with a wiring diagram and the parts I used, for anyone else who might be interested.

Cheers,
Aaron
 

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Is there a new service manual as in UK service manual wiring diagram shows on 2 wires to the ind light and is switched live. You obviously have indicator running lights which may not be adopted in Europe hence I ask if there is a new service manual which covers this.
 

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Hello,

I just received some turn signals I ordered from AliExpress. I had a hard time finding the style that I liked combined with LEDs instead of incandescent and three wires (for dual running and signal lights). I had planned to keep the fronts as dual-function lights and convert the rear to the same by splicing off the license plate illumination circuit.

What I have found in the front is that from the factory, Yamaha provides a common 12V power and the ground is switched on and off to illuminate the light. The new signals are wired such that they have a common ground and the 12V is switched for either the running or the turn signal illumination...

If this was incandescent, it would be fine, since current can flow in either direction across a filament and work properly. LEDs are a different beast, the current has to flow one way and will not work if the polarity is reversed. I don't see any way to make this work without a complicated relay setup - has anyone else experienced this and figured out a way to make this work?

The only solution I see would be to desolder each of the ~15 LEDs on each PCB on each indicator and reverse the polarity, then use the common ground wire as 12V and the individual power leads as switched ground. As these are all surface-mount components, I'm not sure my soldering skills are up to the task.

Any ideas??? I'd think this would be a common theme on aftermarket 3-wire indicators. Not sure if US and European made bikes use a common ground whereas Japanese bikes always use a common 12V...

Thanks,
Aaron
I would highly recommend that anyone who modifies their wiring system in any way documents the modification both in writing and with diagrams. Some time down the road there could be a technician trying to figure out why something isn't working like it's supposed to and they'd be banging his head trying to figure out why?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I would highly recommend that anyone who modifies their wiring system in any way documents the modification both in writing and with diagrams. Some time down the road there could be a technician trying to figure out why something isn't working like it's supposed to and they'd be banging his head trying to figure out why?
I understand where you're coming from, and this is a good point that I'd generally agree with. With my older motorcycle and other vehicles I've owned, I'd certainly have appreciated that... the PO factor is ALWAYS something you have to consider, especially with motorcycles, but it's also something that shops are used to seeing. I did a short stint in an automotive shop and saw some real hack jobs that we would just rip out and redo "the right way" when the customer couldn't get it to work. We had to charge them for the removal of their shoddy work, but in the end they would get a nice clean install, and more importantly, one that functioned!

In my case, I'm not modifying the factory wiring in any way. I am only modifying wiring harnesses that plug into the factory wiring to adapt from the OEM plugs to the more traditional bullet-style connectors found in almost all aftermarket indicators. Nobody else will be working on this electrical system besides me until I sell the bike or I die. If I sell it, the buyer would receive the OEM indicators which they could reinstall if troubleshooting the turn signal electrical circuit.
 

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I understand where you're coming from, and this is a good point that I'd generally agree with. With my older motorcycle and other vehicles I've owned, I'd certainly have appreciated that... the PO factor is ALWAYS something you have to consider, especially with motorcycles, but it's also something that shops are used to seeing. I did a short stint in an automotive shop and saw some real hack jobs that we would just rip out and redo "the right way" when the customer couldn't get it to work. We had to charge them for the removal of their shoddy work, but in the end they would get a nice clean install, and more importantly, one that functioned!

In my case, I'm not modifying the factory wiring in any way. I am only modifying wiring harnesses that plug into the factory wiring to adapt from the OEM plugs to the more traditional bullet-style connectors found in almost all aftermarket indicators. Nobody else will be working on this electrical system besides me until I sell the bike or I die. If I sell it, the buyer would receive the OEM indicators which they could reinstall if troubleshooting the turn signal electrical circuit.

I thought it was pretty interesting reading the situation you found yourself in when you decided to go to LED signals. I've done similar jobs but always just eliminated the old OEM's and put in LED 2-wire rigs so never encountered the specific problem you did. You could probably sell a kit to help others who want to do the same. The micro switch deal was a good idea, especially these days where space is always at a premium. My whole working life was with electronics and networks and the stuff we encountered would make me scratch my head trying to figure out what the previous guy was trying to accomplish (this started when micro-switches weren't even heard of )so we'd deal with a lot of relays and all kinds of one-off stuff (some of which were my own invention). If I ever came behind one of my own guys who got inventive without documenting it, I'd be pissed, especially after spending a couple hours trying to figure it out.
 
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